Dem ol debil riddems (Vincebus Discombobulaiuta)

[five eight]

Long ago I attended a college party with a band without drums and everyone sat around listlessly until a drummer turned up with a kit. Then everyone started dancing. Since that incident I've equated drumming with dancing. I need remind no one here that Mssrs. Rich and Gadd both tap-danced. This is an oddball topic and I'm unsure in how to approach it, so work with me, my drum brothers and sisters.

Recently, in the course of my job, I talked to a client from California on the phone who knew Vinnie. He told me he tried to convince the illustrious Mr. C to give him a lesson. "How'd that go?" I asked not out of politeness, but because I was genuinely interested. Vinnie may or may not give lessons, I don't profess to know and rather doubt it, but my client didn't get one. Otherwise he told me Vinnie would either talk drums or religion with him. His comment sent my mind off on the tangent that religion and dancing don't always peacefully co-exist. Vinnie has played few gigs as a dance drummer although you can dance to Chaka Khan and to quite a bit of Sting. If I'm fucked up enough to need a cab home I might even venture out onto the floor if a band played Keep It Greasey, but that's beside the point. The point is I don't do a whole lotta booty shakin' while blasting Zappa and Karizma. I don't buy Vinnie Colaiuta CDs entertaining the thought of bustin' a move to them. I buy them to listen to and enjoy and to remind myself I need to practice more.

As far as group discussion goes at least one fundamentalist sect I knew of as a kid frowned upon dancing, the stated reason being that dancing led to salaciousness. Nowadays plenty of respected churches have electric bands complete with drums involved in the services. I asked a sister what the vibe was like in her church and she said, "We jam!" Too, there are numerous world religions that hypnotic music factors highly into; without being flippant, Voodoo being one of them.

So I ask you, as fellow drummers: if we play dem ol debil riddems, to paraphrase Sly Dunbar, are we inciting wrong-sinful-fill-in-your-own-adjective feelings by making our audience want to dance, groove and feel good? Or is that stigma by and large removed from modern religion?

Or has somebody poured bong water into my Dr. Pepper again? [img]eek.gif[/img]

[McKenzie]

David danced unto the Lord thanking God for his goodness and the Lord was pleased. If your question is simply whether dancing and music IN GENERAL is wrong or sinful than the answer is a big NO!! God created both and I believe it is innate in Man to let the expression of both to flow out. God rejoiced when Man was involved in both celebrating what God had given them. I think that is an important aspect, David danced unto the Lord as an expression of Love and Thankfulness not just to dance for the sake of dancing, it had a specific purpose. In fact David was so into dancing before the Lord that he tore off MOST of his clothes in front of many other's and his own wife and other's were jealous of him for his willingness to be free and simply not care what other's thought of him as he expressed his gratitude before his God. I hope this is what you were talking about if not well it is a Cool story anyway's. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Dig

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 10, 2005 03:18 AM: Message edited by: Digital Man ]</font>

[WecklsMechanic]

Like Vinnie was quoted once in a clinic, drumming was a method of communication by early humans at one time. In tribal Africa, drums are used at the majority of social and religious occasions, and dancing is usually used to express themselves to their god(s). Just as Indians did in this continent, dancing was usually part of some sort of ceremony. The early Eqyptians, mesopotamians, and Babylonians all practiced this method of dance to drums. I truly feel that the pulse or drive of a beat dictates the emotion of those listening. Just stop playing drums when the groove is thick and see the audiences reation. Just like your story of the party without the drummer, people started to dance when the batteur showed up. "Drummers rule the world" I heard Weckl once say at a clinic. I don't think we rule the world, but it would be a pretty boring place without us.

ps.... don't worry about God. Keep your nose clean and he'll like you no matter what.

[drum4fun]

Welcome back to HOD, Five Eight! It's good having you back. None of the churches that I have attended have ever discouraged dancing due to the reasons that Digital Man mentioned in his post.

[moosetication]

Originally posted by Five Eight:
So I ask you, as fellow drummers: if we play dem ol debil riddems, to paraphrase Sly Dunbar, are we inciting wrong-sinful-fill-in-your-own-adjective feelings by making our audience want to dance, groove and feel good?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If anyone needs me, I'll be over there with that big group of folks under the sign that says "people who don't give a fast flying f*** about religion."

[McKenzie]

The question was not whether you or anyone gives a bleeping bleep etc. or whatever it was about religion. Please refrain from turning this into a religion trashing thread. If you hate the idea of Faith in God more power to you, start your own thread.

[five eight]

The Good Lord gave me a sense of humor as well as a small rhythmic ability. Typically I employ both facets in my posts. The topic was left field, agreed, but I didn't feel like an in-depth discussion of bearing edge angles today.

And I traded my bong for an old Ludwig snare in 1973. [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Andy Edwards]

Christianity has a dualistic approach to Mind and Body and throughout its history it has equated the body with bad and the mind (or soul) as good.

The purity of the soul is polluted by the actions of the body. This why a lot of early christian doctrine involved self flagellation and hair shirts etc.

I think in it's history (and this is why your your fundamentalist mat would have this opinion) dancing has been equated with the body and therefore bad.

Obviously Christianity has moved with the times and shifted it's moral view of the world and no longer wold see the power of rhythm and dancing as bad but I can see from a fundamentalist pov why this belief may arrived at.

As for Vinnie, He sound much better to me before he saw the light, as discussed elsewhere, maybe a musician needs a bit of turmoil as fuel to the fire!!!

As far as Vinnie playing dance music, what about 'Dirty Love' of 'You cant do that on stage anymore Vol 6'? (that pretty groovy!!!)

[FlamTriplet]

I would suggest you ask your priest or something at your church this question.

There is nothing sinful about dancing, it is a celebration of life.

Maybe you should quit drumming or smoking pot. One of these two is making you disturbed.

[LDGuy]

So I ask you, as fellow drummers: if we play dem ol debil riddems, to paraphrase Sly Dunbar, are we inciting wrong-sinful-fill-in-your-own-adjective feelings by making our audience want to dance, groove and feel good? Or is that stigma by and large removed from modern religion?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know i'm probably agaisnt the majority here, but it's reasoning like this that makes me hate organised religion.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 10, 2005 04:17 PM: Message edited by: LDGuy ]</font>